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Homeschooling is NOT the answer

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03/24/2009

I strongly oppose home education for three reasons:

1. the children being homeschooled are limited to their parent’s ability to relay information and the previous schooling of the parents. In a school setting, children are provided with perspectives and knowledge from a very wide pool of minds.

2. Socially, homeschool does not expose children to peer pressure. Peer pressure can be a good thing and it can be a negative thing. Regardless, children need to learn how to handle peer pressure situations and how to interact with their peers (especially the ones that are different from themselves).

3. bias of the parents (whether for or against religion) will color the type and method of education. Even atheist children need to learn how to talk with and interact with religious people.

Finally, I find the motive of parents who show a desire to homeschool their children to b selfish. They want to have 100% control of what is let into their child’s brain. The best answer to a child who is behind in a subject or excelling beyond her grade level or even if something is being left out of the child’s school curriculum that the parent wants to add: simply supplement their regular school with your own help or a tutor’s help. Children can learn at home AND at school.

  • noreply@blogger.com (Steph)

    I strongly oppose public education for many reasons, but will go with only 4 (for the sake of saving time).

    1) Public schooled children are limited to the resources available in their own school. If they are in a poor district, with limited means and elevated violence, too bad. If they have a bad teacher, they are (typically) stuck with such a teacher until the following school year. Rarely does a school allow a parent to choose the teacher that would match up best with their child. Homeschoolers, on the other hand, know how to look for a wide variety of outside sources to supplement the education of their child. And, because schooling does not take nearly as long in the typical homeschool, they have more time to pursue these outside classes. Why limit our children only to what is available within their classroom? There is a great big world out there! Let them experience it! Our kids don’t stay in all day, every day. Actually, we don’t have one day in any given week in which we stay home for the entire day.

    2) Socially, public schools and homeschools are light-years apart. A child in the public school is stuck in a class of 20 other children born within 12 months of themselves (mostly). That is a very unnatural way of socializing, don’t you think? I know that my world is wide open, without age guidelines defining who I befriend. As a matter of fact, my best friend is 9 years older than me, and the age plays no difference (except, LOL, when making references to music of our childhood- big difference there, haha). Likewise, my homeschooled children, every day, play with kids that range from age 3 up through 14. (My boys are 6 and 9) They play with boys and girls; color does not matter, handicapped or typical, young and old. They have amazing social development because they are not worried about peer pressure. Tell me, why do they need to get used to peer pressure? I am 28 years old, and the last time peer pressure played a part in my life, I was in high school. Maybe some experience it in college, but it wasn’t the norm, because by then most people had matured beyond the whole, “Do it or I won’t be your friend” thing. In the *real* adult world, you don’t try to pressure your friends to do drugs, or have sex with you. You don’t compete for best clothes (unless you have a very shallow lifestyle) or who has the best shoes. That would be an awful way to live- I remember hating that about school.

    3) Bias of the teacher will color the method of instruction. My biology teacher in high school stood me up in front of the class to harass and embarrass me because of my answer on a science test. When asked about the beginning of the solar system, and life, I acknowledged that some believe everything started with a “big bang” but then when on to say that some believe in a Creator. She was not open to anything that challenged her belief on the test, even though I just wanted to show that there are many theories about science- none of it is absolute, as we learn more every day. Why limit our children to the belief of only the secular world? Teachers in a public school will not typically teach the Intelligent Design theory, so how fair is that to the kids in those schools? Along those lines, are you against private Christian schools? Because let’s face it, those schools will also have a particular viewpoint that they are teaching.

    I find that many parents are selfish in choosing public school. They want their free time, they want the kids to be gone so they aren’t annoyed, they want a clean house, etc… There are many reasons on both sides of the fence, but (admit it) the majority of parents never even take the time to consider anything beyond public education. They do what is easiest, without looking deeply into what is best for the individual child. They don’t bother with homework or become involved in the education of their child after the child starts school. Hang out with a teacher or two and they will tell you- they wish parents were more involved and cared more for their child’s education.

    I don’t homeschool because I want to “control” my children (can anybody really control their child? Not with free will…) I was going to teach public school (got all the way through my student teaching when my oldest was born) and my kids would go to public school. Things change- I realized that public school does not hold all the answers. That children are not treated like individuals in the school system. , sometimes, schools cause more harm than good. That not all children are a good fit for public school. Public schools have been around for such a short time in the grand scheme of things- why assume that they are the best or that they have all the answers? Why not be open-minded to other ways of doing things?

    And really, I am not “opposed” to public school- that comment was just for the point of argument, to demonstrate that to make assumptions about one method is, well, wrong. What I am opposed to is a parent just doing what is easiest without looking any farther than their local “free” education.

  • noreply@blogger.com (Crimson Wife)

    "The best answer to a child who is behind in a subject or excelling beyond her grade level or even if something is being left out of the child's school curriculum that the parent wants to add: simply supplement their regular school with your own help or a tutor's help. Children can learn at home AND at school."

    If I'm going to have to spend the time, money, & effort to teach my child after school to make sure her academic needs are met, then why bother enrolling her in the school in the first place? Why not simply homeschool and free up her afternoons & weekends for a combination of structured activities (like sports, music & dance lessons, 4H, Girl Scouts, etc.) and unstructured free time?

    I was bored for the majority of the time I spent in the government-run school I attended growing up. I was frustrated by the slow pace and lack of intellectual challenge in my classes. I don't want to inflict the same experience on my child.

    In our homeschool, we are not bound by the state standards or the needs of 20+ other students. We can go as quickly as is appropriate for her abilities.

  • noreply@blogger.com (Anonymous)

    You all have some good points, but as a non-home-schooler I can say that all the home school peers I know in my town growing up were socially award, shy, removed, and kind of strange…

    What do you have to add to the fact that the dozen or so home-schooled children who I attended senior high and graduation with; had a hard time relating to their peers??? Book smarts is just a fraction of what is learned in public school.

  • http://LiberatedMind.com noreply@blogger.com (Writings of a Liberated Mind)

    Steph,

    I do think homeschooling can be done well, but the circumstances and type of parent who can accomplish the well done home education is more rare than the good public school.

    To speak to your first point, I agree with you: life is not about just school. Children should be given the opportunity to learn and grow in other ways through experiences and activities. These things can be added on to a regular school day.

    Point 2: I do think socializing with your peers is a natural state. Most children are also involved in peer groups that include children of varying ages through neiborhood play, cousins, siblings, sports teams, clubs, etc. Especially at the younger grades, age has a greater determinate on the interaction of children. The difference of age between a 6 and 12 year old is very great, however the difference of age between a 36 and 42 year old is much reduced. You also asked why peer pressure is a factor or a necessary thing. Let’s understand that peer pressure can be a positive or a negative factor. In many day cares, teachers use peer pressure to help a child who is beyond the age where diapers or pullups are acceptable to transition to using the potty. For some children I have worked with, this is the only method that works after the parents have tried everything in the potty training book. :) Peer pressure or pressure from society is always existant in a child’s and adult’s life. In a school setting, children are more frequently given the opportunity to deal with negative and positive peer pressure, better equipping them to handle those situations when presented with them later in life. A proper parenting technique to pair with those pressures in a child’s life is to never pass judgement so that your child will feel comfortable coming to you for advice. Never be the judge and the jury. Consequences for a child’s actions or un-action should be natural and never fabricated by parents. (read Eliza Medhus’ book Raising Children Who Think for Themselves)

    http://writingsofaliberatedmind.blogspot.com/2009/03/raising-children-who-think-for.html

    Remember, just because you hated something about a process of growing up does not mean it is negative in the big picture. Protecting your children from all the “bad” things of your past is unfair to them. Mistakes are stepping stones to success. The job of a parent is to guide, then step aside. It hurts to see our children fail or get hurt, but this is part of growing and maturing and finding inner strength. Many kids hate eating their peas, wearing their seatbelt, wearing a dorky helmet, brushing their teeth, learning to read, etc… and many hate school because of peer pressure or other reasons (“I hate school because I hate my Math teacher”.) Those are not good reasons to stop brushing our teeth, wearing our seatbelt or going to school and we should help our children to learn this through constructive dialogue to help them sort out their problems/fears instead of hiding from them.

    In point three you discuss your experienece in science class. Everyone has a bias and some teachers do not know when to keep their opinions in check. Your experieneces in your class gave your the opportunity to stand up for yourself and grow as a child. When a child is sheltered from other’s opinions and then is one day thrown out into the real world where other people think differently from them, they can become frustrated and unable to express themselves in a considerate and logical dialogue. You mention Intelligent Design as a plausable causal theory for the universe as we know it. Intellegent Design is not taught in schools because it is trying to provide a hypothosis to what came before the big bang. Science has provided repeatable evidence to support the big bang theory, but science so far has not found out what happened moments before the big bang. Religion is something that should not be taught in schools because then you have to teach EVERYONE’s religious views which would end up replacing every other necessary subject and eat up so much time that it would turn into a religious freakshow. Science is concerned with what is provable and repeatable. Science is not about discussing all the other possibilities that might be. For every provable scientific answer, there are an infinate number of non-answers. Here are a few videos by dr. quantum that i find help explain where science is at today in regard to this:

    http://writingsofaliberatedmind.blogspot.com/search/label/Science

    Yes, I am against private christian schools, but for my own personal reasons. I think it unfair to lable children as belonging to a religious group because of their parents. You wouldn’t call the child of a facist a facist child, would you? Most children are not labled as republicans or green party kids. But somehow with religion and mythology, children are labled the day they enter the world as belonging to their parent’s supernatural belief system and are indoctrinated with it.

    I agree with you, many parents are not as involved with their children’s education and lives in general as they out to be. But those parents are not the type to want to homeschool their kids. you are correct, public school does not hold all the answers (nothing usually does). That is exactly why an involved parent and after school activities and interests can be pursued. I am open minded to home education. I believe a mix of public and home is the best answer so far. From my personal experience being homeschooled and sheltered and having to relearn how to socialize and think for myself, I oppose strongly the fundamentalist religious parent who chooses to home educate so they can manipulate the inflow of information and “protect” the child from the world.

    Thanks for the dialogue. I wish you the best in your home educating… you sound like a down-to-earth parent, so I have little worries :)

    WLM

  • noreply@blogger.com (Steph)

    Anonymous- that argument can work both ways. If I said that, “the public schooled kids on my street are rude, disregard authority, have foul mouths and do drugs,” should I assume that all of the public schooled kids out there do the same? Because I have met MANY public schooled kids that are like that. I went to a school in which we had to go through metal detectors and be patted down every single day to go into school. Kids snuck in drugs and weapons. They cussed and threatened teachers They stole. But I will not assume that every school is like that. That would be wrong, just as your assumptions are wrong based on 12 or so homeschoolers.

  • noreply@blogger.com (Steph)

    WLM-
    Thank you for your reply to my comments. I think discussion is the best way to attempt to understand “the other side.” 
    I have a couple of questions/comments about your reply.
    In your first paragraph, you said the well done homeschool is “more rare” than a good public school. Have you seen research supporting this? I have honestly looked through the internet and cannot come up with studies that support this. Anything I have found shows that the test scores of homeschoolers are much higher than that of their public schooled counterparts.

    As far as adding to the regular school day- after 7 or 8 hours at school, plus travel time on a school bus, many kids are simply wiped out and the thought of adding more enrichment can seem exhausting and daunting. When do the kids just get to be kids? I spent some time visiting a neighbor yesterday (they have 2 boys in public school) and we talked about how the oldest boy would come home from school and then have to sit and work on 3-5 hours of homework each night. The difference is that in the majority of the homeschools I know, school only takes 3-5 hours TOTAL and then the children can focus intensively on their interests, and enrichments, without feeling like they are experiencing burnout.

    I never said that socializing with peers was unnatural; I said that being forced into a peer-group of kids only born within 12 months of yourself (the same 20 or so kids at that) was unnatural. The world is so much bigger than that, and we really limit kids by dividing classes by age rather than interest and ability. I still do not see the connection between constant peer pressure in childhood and adulthood. I simply do not feel *pressured* to do anything just to fit in. That being said, kids can experience smaller doses of peer pressure by their interactions in the neighborhood without having to feel *constant pressure.* I do agree with natural consequences, but I don’t think that being ridiculed and forced to do things just because *everyone else is doing it* is a natural consequence. I want to raise kids that don’t feel that they have to have the most expensive shoes, name brand clothes and haircuts identical to that of their friends.

    If, as you say, peer pressure is almost always existent in an adult’s and child’s life, then there is plenty of peer pressure opportunities to learn from without the need to face it for 35-40 hours a week, 36 weeks out of the year, right? Who should help a child learn how to cope with the negatives in society- a loving parent that can gently guide the child or a group of kids that will find differences and exploit them, teasing and picking and pressuring? Let’s take your average 9 year old. If my son had to catch the school bus, he would have to be at the bus stop by 8 am every morning. He would then be gone until the bus drops him off at 4:30 (this is the schedule of the neighborhood kids). He would have about an hour of homework and then his evening activities (baseball, karate and church- depending on the night). After evening activities he would have dinner and then bath and bed. Doing the math, he would have an estimated 10 ½ waking hours (8 ½ hours school and bus, 2 hours at his activity) with same age peers each and every weekday, and about an hour with his parents (time that does not involve school or bath- undivided attention). Now tell me, where do you think he would get the majority of his values? How close is the average American family that has a schedule like that? They see each other in passing, without fully connecting and knowing each other. Not all families, of course, but I have seen it with my own eyes. I hear parents every year complain that they have no idea what to do with their kids when they are out of school for the summer and that they can’t wait to send them back. How sad for those kids whose parents don’t even fully know them and know how to relate to them.

    I do not agree with the big bang, but I will leave it at that, because this is a discussion on homeschooling and teachers bias.  I always find that science discussions can get ugly, and bringing that to your blog is not my intention at all.

    When you say that you don’t label a child “fascist” or “republican,” I have to disagree. I mean, you may not actually give the child those labels, but do you think that a liberal household isn’t going to try to teach their child liberal ways of thinking and doing? The fact is, parents have the right to teach their children based on their own thoughts and beliefs I do not agree on everything that my *very* liberal family says, but I will never argue that it is their right to teach those thoughts to their children. The hard thing of it is, a public school typically leans towards the left and have 35+ hours a week to indoctrinate kids with that, so a liberal household can rest assured that they will rarely hear contradictory thoughts in school. But the child coming from the conservative household will have a harder time reinforcing their beliefs in the limited time that families have together.

    I am sorry that your parents chose to shelter you too much. Not all homeschooling parents do that. We don’t keep our children locked in the house. We want our kids to have plenty of experiences and that is why we do what we do- because we want the best for our kids. I do not assume that all, or even most, public school parents are lazy and uncaring. Just the same, please don’t assume that all, or most, homeschooling parents are hiding their kids away from the real world. You know what happens when you assume… ;-)

  • http://LiberatedMind.com noreply@blogger.com (Writings of a Liberated Mind)

    School is not all about Peer Pressure. It is about opportunities, friends, social skills, structure, branching out, working with others, etc. Some of these things can be achieved at home, but some cannot. A large number of parents home educate for religious reasons, not academic reasons. And these are the patents that will not admit it either. To this day my parents believe they did not shelter me because I was “involved in so many activities outside the home”. In reality they did shelter me by controling my education and the people I came in contact with. I was unaware of what masterbation was until I reached college and found out through reading a Shakespearian play Lystistrada. It is this type of home education to which I am opposed, in the same way you are opposed to schools that are filled with violence and drugs. There is a grey area: it is not black and white. Unfortunately people like my parents are not willing to admit to sheltering and controlling and labeling their children.

    The big bang is not a matter of agreement it is a matter of science. You cannot say that you do not “agree” that gravity exists. Teachers are not “bias” towards the big bang just as they are not bias towards gravity.

  • noreply@blogger.com (Anonymous)

    @Strep

    That’s correct I would never try to base a concrete conclusion on the small group of home-schoolers I knew. It could have just been a strange group of 12. And you are right, in my average sized class of 600 there were plenty of drop-outs, pregnant girls, drug dealers, bullies, etc. But the vast majorities were kids who in the end really did want to succeed in life. That 90% or so can learn so much from just being in the same environment as the other 10% who are having such a hard time in early life.

    What will happen later in life when your child is in collage and a person of the same age who lives down the street from the collage selling drugs; befriends your child? Will your child have the subtle distinguishing skills to know this person does not have their interests in mind? Will they be “rude” enough to tell them to get lost? Or will they be starved for some drama and real world experiences? Will you child be able to “disregard authority” when a corrupted authority figure demands something of them that goes against their values?

  • noreply@blogger.com (Steph)

    Anonymous-

    My name is “Steph” not “Strep” :-)

    I believe you are still under the assumption that my children are in a closet all day, locked away. My children are more in the *real world* than children that have to be locked into an artificial environment every day. They are out and about, socializing and making friends in extracurricular activities, going to the bank and the grocery; speaking with the same types of people that any average adult would speak to during the day. They have friends all over the neighborhood that they play with every chance they get (sometimes the poor neighborhood kids can’t play because they have hours of homework, but between ALL the kids in the neighborhood, most evenings my boys can find someone to play with). These are the EXACT same kids that they would go to school with- some older, some younger, but none are *selected* based on similar religious beliefs or anything. In the group, my kids and the little girl next door are the only Christians, so they have a broad range of beliefs in the group.

    Within the group (ages 3-12 mostly, with a couple of older kids thrown in) my 9 year old is the natural leader. He has this amazing take-charge personality and will not bend when a child is doing something bad. Because he has not become accustomed to the poor behaviors, he can clearly see the difference between right and wrong. Kids that are in school all day, from the age of 5 on up, will eventually not care as much about bad behaviors because they become used to it. It doesn’t seem nearly as wrong when 10 kids are doing as it did when there was only one kid doing it. My kids do not need to be hit with a barrage of poor behavior constantly to know the difference between right and wrong.

    Did you know that when the federal government trains people to recognize counterfeit money, they do not use fake money as examples? Instead they spend all of their time studying *real* money, and only real money, so that when faced with a fake they know easily that it is a fake. Same theory.

  • noreply@blogger.com (Anonymous)

    Sorry, “Strep” was a typo haha.

    I don’t know your situation exactly, I can only speak of those who were home schooled who I have talk with and am friends with now. All of them had some level of regret that they were not allowed to be with the majority of American children; in public school.

    My point is simple. Public school is not perfect. Private school is not perfect, home school is not perfect. It’s only a combination of sources that can ensure that a child is able to learn and experience as much as possible. The most well off people I know today went to public school and were also tutored by there parents and other 3rd parties in the evenings and weekends.

    Why would you pigeon hole any child to a select source of influence?

    PS there is nothing wrong with hours of homework, in collage there is much much more then that.

  • noreply@blogger.com (Doc)

    I could have taken this criticism semi seriously had the author bothered to insert statistical analysis. Homeschooliing has been proved to be consistently on par with any public school education, providing the students with equal, if not better, opportunities for rigorous academics, socialization, and preparation for life. If you sincerely believe that a majority of homeschoolers are doing a poor job, you’re sadly misinformed. The problem is, I can’t see that you’re even a little bit informed. Where exactly, did you do your homeschooling research? You can start, if you’re willing, by simply googling “homeschool statistics”. I think you’ll be surprised.

  • noreply@blogger.com (Anonymous)

    @Laura

    “Homeschooling has been the “mainstream” way of thinking for thousands of years.”
    That’s only partially true. Collages/higher education has been around for nearly as long.
    If you go back to the Geeks, Romans, Egyptians, Chinese and Japanese; out of home education for the middle classes and above was common. Those civilizations were arguably the most advanced until our modern culture. For most; home-school was the only option for the poor and oppressed.

    “why do you care so much” I care about every child’s ability to learn from as many points of view as possible. My children will go to public school and be home schooled. You clearly didn’t comprehend my posts above.

    3.5 million Families is about 4% of our population. There are about the same number of homosexuals in America. So yeah let’s call that mainstream. Oh wait you’re probably into suppressing them too.

    @Doc

    The author of this post WAS HOMESCHOOLED! And you are right, more sources are needed, I’m sure they are coming!

    The whole point here is that going to any extreme is NOT a good idea. All home school all the time is not the best and all public school all the time is not the best.

  • http://LiberatedMind.com noreply@blogger.com (Writings of a Liberated Mind)

    @ Doc

    Well, actually I was home educated from 3rd grade through highschool. I attended two co-ops and was enrolled in college PSEO courses for the 11th and 12th grades. There are not many statistics on homeschoolers besides their academic acheivements, which I am not disputing. I myself was a straight A student and graduated high school with 24 college credits.

    My point is that learning and growing as a child into an adult includes much more than just book smarts. I was socially disabled going to college because I was not as capable as the public school graduates in socializing and interacting with people who were not homeschooled or participated in the same church groups/coops as myself.

    @Anon

    I agree with your comments. Homeschoolers believe they have a mainstream way of doing things, when in reality they are a small 4% of the American population. With Atheists at 16%, perhaps we should start a line of schools dedicated to high science and critical thinking :)

    You also had an interesting point about education in ancient times. I would also like to add that today in Japan, their students are lapping American students with flying colors. Because the Japanese are in school more days/year the average Japanese student spends a total of 4 more years in school than the average American student. If homeschool parents are hoping to acheieve a higher level of academics, perhaps they might want to try what seems to be working in Japan. :P

    @Laura

    You make many points, most of which I hope I have address throughout the above and below comments. However, I do want to point out one issue I have with your line of reasoning. You argue that homeschool is the best route because that is what people used to do for ages and ages in the past. Just because something is old or was used / practiced in the past does not default it to the best or most efficient method today. For example: writing on paper. For the most part, people use email, text or phone to communicate today. For eons, we used tablets, papyrus or paper to convey messages. I wouldn’t argue that the old way is the best way today: we’ve found something faster, less wasteful and more timely.

    Also, I believe people like myself and Anon care about the well being of children subjected to homeschooling because of well being of society as a whole. Today we have public schools that provide every child with equal opportunity to learn. Removing children from this environment may not ensure that they are receiving that equal opportunity… their equal opporutnity is subject to the beliefs and preferences of their parents. Now, I do think there is a small minority of home school parents out there that can truely balance social skills with academics and not insert religious bias into curriculum. But given that only 4% of the US homeschools, I have a sinking feeling that out of that 4% only a very small number fit that definition.

    You said “I am a Christian who holds strong to my faith. I don’t shove it down anyone’s throat or condemn anyone. I have strong opinions and values. I do believe in absolute truth but only God is the judge of someone’s heart.”

    I do hope you are not home educating because of your religion. Having opinions and values is not a bad thing. That is something you can discuss and relay to your children without inserting it into school topics. I too believe in absolute truth: science. Science is provable, repeatable and has a flawless method for evaluation a query.

    Values should come from within, not from without. Children need to learn to be internally motivated, not externally driven through fear or threats of hell. I grew up in a household like this and it seriously imparred my trust in my parents. I highly recommend the book “Raising Children Who Think for Themselves”. It is a parenting philosphy that teaches parents to respect their children. You can find the link under Book Reviews on my topic category.

    Here is an observation I have: Why is it that homeschool parents send their children to college? Why not home educate them through a college liberal arts degree? They could hang out with the neighbor kids their age, do an internship at the local whatever and gleen all the information they need for the degree from their parents. If there is something different that can be had at college that cannot be found through one’s parents, why is education for 12 years of a young person’s life not treated likewise?

    How is it that a parent believes they are able to specialize in every subject with the most up to date information on each topic through every single grade and often times with multiple children? Why not give them the best chance at an education possible in a structured school setting, supplemented and aided at home. Children also learn to be accountable for their own work and accountable to a teacher or peer group. Home education only allows children to be accountable to their parents. Learning is comprised of more than just academics. Children learn social interaction, conflict resolution, what sorts of things to avoid, how to make new friends… Environments for learning are on the bus, around the dinner table, in the classroom, weekend vacations with the family, lunchroom antics, neighborhood play, recess, family activities, and afterschool activities. A family with no “family time” is just as extreem as a homeschool family that cuts out half of the learning arenas of a child’s life. Too much of a good thing is a bad thing.

    For myself, I find it frustrating that after having been home educated and “been there done that” I have not found one home schooling parent who will listen to the advice I have to offer. If you could talk to your kids in the future to get a better understanding of how they feel about their past, wouldn’t you listen? If there was something they said that went wrong, would you want to know or even try to change things for them? Everyone is different, but we all have something to learn from other’s experiences. In the end, I have decided that I will put my children in public school but aid them at home with their education. I have also considered taking them out of school to do a world tour cruise when they are old enough. What better way to learn about the countries of the world than to visit them, right?

    Thank you all for the respectful dialogue.

    WLM

  • http://LiberatedMind.com noreply@blogger.com (Writings of a Liberated Mind)

    Sorry everyone… not sure why Laura deleted her posts. For the sake of dialogue and continutity, here is a link to the two main comments she posted: http://writingsofaliberatedmind.blogspot.com/2007_01_01_archive.html

    As i like to say: if your ideas can’t stand up to a little puff puff, then they need to be reconsidered.

  • noreply@blogger.com (Anonymous)

    For convenience I’ll post Laura’s comments here:

    POST 1

    This has been an enlightening conversation. This is what is great about our country…our right to choose. So many countries have banned the idea of homeschooling or even private schooling as the choice of the parents.

    Homeschooling has been the “mainstream” way of thinking for thousands of years. It has worked and has raised up great leaders; presidents, inventors, college professors, teachers, doctors. etc…. Public school is the experiment as of late. The concept of a public, free educational institution has only been around for about 120-130 years. It is the “experiment”, not homeschooling.

    On that note…anonymous, why do you care so much about what other people do concerning their childrens education. Do you care what they eat, where they shop, what kind of house they live in? Why when it comes to educating my children in my home all of the sudden, I need outside opinions and comments? I am not capable to handle the daily teaching and training of my own children? I know them best; their needs, their like and dislikes, their personalities. I can train them in an unique way that will challenge them but in the same turn use their strengths and weaknesses to their advantage. No other institution could do that. Not to their fault, its just not possible with so many different children in one classroom.

    I have homeschooled for 5 years now. My oldest is ten. I don’t hate public school. To the contrary, I have many friends whose children are in school and are thriving. I myself attended public school and had a positive experience. For me to judge someone who chooses a path that is different from mine is arrogant. I can disagree and choose not participate in a certain activity, school, church, social event. But for me to say, you are not doing it MY way so therefore it is wrong and potential harmful, is ridiculous. We are not harming our children. Why do you care if MY children are exposed socially to peer pressure? Why do you care if MY children are “weird”? Are you implying that if my children or any homeschooled child may behave in a way that is countercultural that somehow that are not as viable to society? Some how they are harming our way of life as a society? The mere fact that there are cliques in school is proof that you can be socially weird and spend your whole life in a public institution.. And BTW..who defines weird anyway? I am from the south, live in the country, grow my own food and live off of the land. Up until a few months ago, that was not encouraged in our society. That was weird or backward. Now that the economy is bad, people are struggling, money is tight, even our new President is planting a garden, growing his own “Victory Garden” to do his part. Societal norms change and sometimes change rapidly. Our goal as a society should not be to focus on streamlining our children and youth into what we have become. Obviously that is not working. Why not try to make a better society where we can play off of the strengths of others.

    Homeschooling, whether you like it or not, is rapidly becoming part of the “mainstream”. 3.5 million families can not be wrong or in your definition “weird”. Someone is failing our children and parent’s are stepping up and taking our children back into our own hands. Not to make them seperatist but to make them leaders, thinkers, truth seekers. Those are the type of homeschoolers I know.

    If you are really concerned for the well-being of homeschoolers and not just flippantly offering an opinion, you should check out a local homeschool co-op. There are thousands all over the nation. See what they are doing, how they are teaching and “socializing”. See the community outreach programs they participate in and they organize. You should “educate” yourself before speaking!!!! I have!

    POST 2

    “The Best” says who. You act like you are speaking fact. It is all opinion. I know what I am speaking about is only “Best” for my family. Whether or not I homeschool my children does not in any way effect you. My children live in “the real world” every day. Sitting in a classroom with other children their same age is not “the real world”. In my profession I do not only work with people that are 35 years of age doing the same thing that everyone else is doing. It is contrived.

    “For most; home-school was the only option for the poor and oppressed.” That is a ridiculous statement!! I was not referring first of all to college. When speaking of homeschooling, mostly you are referring to K-12. I was a History and Sociology major in college. In EVERY culture you study about, most education was in the home; whether by a parent or tutor; and I am not speaking about only the uppercrust that could afford it. The poor were not concerned with educating their children, they were concerned with surviving and you like to throw the word “oppressed” Read any article about the history of homeschooling and you will understand that is WAS the mainstream way of educating not only for the elite. around.http://en.wikipedia.or/wiki/Homeschooling

    “I care about every child’s ability to learn from as many points of view as possible.”
    Again, why do you care? Do you care only in the perspective that best suits you? Is it also wrong for me to raise my children in a certain religious faith? Should I compromise that just to suit you as well? I did comprehend your posts. I read them clearly! I in no way attacked you ability to see that your children are well rounded, learn to seek truth as well as receive a great education.

    On the subject again of living in the real world, my community allows homeschoolers to participate in the local public school activities; such as sports, band, debate, speech, math clubs, etc. My children are not old enough for it but when they are you better believe I am taking advantage of it. Being “in the classroom” of a public school does not make you more socially capable. We do not shelter our children and are in no position to “oppress” anyone. I am a Christian who holds strong to my faith. I don’t shove it down anyone’s throat or condemn anyone. I have strong opinions and values. I do believe in absolute truth but only God is the judge of someone’s heart. What is the difference in my opposition to homosexuality and yours about homeschooling exclusively? Do I not have a right as well to feel strongly about something. All of us want to share our opinions but none of wish to be opposed. That is viewed as “oppression”. Let’s just all please be grown ups here and realize that if you put your thoughts, feelings and opinions out there to be scrutinized, they may just be that.

    I don’t hate anyone or spew venom because I disagree. Debate makes one either hold stronger to their convictions or change their was of thinking.

  • noreply@blogger.com (Steph)

    To say that you were “socially disabled” is a very strong statement, and let’s be honest, you could have been backwards if you had gone to school for 12 years also. We all knew weird, shy kids in school. School didn’t “fix” them, and in some cases could have made the issues even worse. Why think that if a child goes to school, they won’t be weird or have social issues? You may have had an adjustment period when you got to college, but most people do. College is different from anything most kids have done, no matter their previous way of schooling. I was a great student, in loads of clubs and sports, sleepovers on the weekends and all- and I still had a pretty long adjustment period when I got to college.
    Again, I have to ask for statistics- where is it proven that homeschoolers are worse off? This is your opinion, and while your opinion is valid for *your* situation, it is not enough to base a broad assumption from. The statistics and tests I have seen show homeschoolers doing very well. Check out ACT and SAT scores- homeschoolers score higher on those. Read the article “Homeschooling Grows Up” (I believe that’s the name of it- I am taking a quick break from work and will verify that later).
    With the schools in Japan, you say that they are (essentially) kicking our butts academically. Why then would anyone want to place their children in our public schools? Those tests that show the Japanese doing so much better than our students are not being compared to our homeschoolers- they are using tests from our traditional schools. If testing better than the Japanese is the goal, then I would think you would lean more towards homeschooling, since (based on ACT and SAT scores) homeschoolers are testing better than the average public schooled child.
    Let’s be realistic about equal opportunity- our public schools don’t offer that. Some are HORRIBLE, some are average, and some are fantastic- they are not equal at all. 2 miles apart (both near me) is one of the worst schools here in my state and one of the best. 2 miles- might as well be 200 to the kids stuck in the bad district (and it is a very large district… imagine all the kids they are damaging and failing every day).
    Science is far from flawless- you shouldn’t place all your faith in it. How many things has science proven and then disproven over the years, as scientists learn more? Science is fluid, and science and Christianity can go hand in hand- they are not mutually exclusive. Atheists do not have the corner market on science.
    Some families do continue to homeschool through college. Some that were never homeschooled at all “homeschool” for college- it’s called distance learning. It’s great, for anyone that wants it. My children will probably go to college. The difference is that I have been through k-12 school, and there is no reason I (and tutors, etc… if I become stuck on a subject) cannot teach that to my children. College is highly specialized- my husband and I had 2 different majors and we only had 4 classes in our entire college careers that were the same. On the other hand, going up through high school, he took Algerbra and I took Algebra; I had a speech and debate course, and so did he. I had Biology and Chemistry, and so did every other kid in my grade. Almost every kid in my school took the exact same core courses, and those same core courses are required for my kids now. My weak subjects are actually my husband’s strong subjects- except art. Neither of us can draw worth a lick, LOL. Luckily my mom, sister and multiple cousins are artists and can help. Plus, we outsource, to find the strongest teacher possible for certain subjects.
    I think that what makes it hard to listen to your “BTDT” is that you come across saying that no one should *only* homeschool, without taking into account the individual families. That may not be your intent, but that is the way some (especially the first post that started this thread) comments have come across. Yes, maybe you would have been better off in school- that is your personal experience. But it is only one experience and does not speak for all. Just because my kids thrive (and tell their friends that they would not want to go to school- the neighbor kids, OTOH, say that they wish they could be homeschooled), I would never say that *all* kids should be homeschooled.

  • http://LiberatedMind.com noreply@blogger.com (Writings of a Liberated Mind)

    @Steph

    I was socially disabled and I was fully aware of it in college as I tried to re-educate myself and think outside my homeschooling box. I am just one more example of how homeschoolers are typically book smart and not street smart. I am not aware of any stats on the social oddities of homeschoolers, are you? You simply need to listen to those who have been homeschooled to find the information you seek. I don’t know of any other resource at the moment. If hearing the results from the horse’s mouth isn’t good enough, I doubt a stat would change your mind. Maybe I’m wrong.

    “Science is far from flawless- you shouldn’t place all your faith in it. How many things has science proven and then disproven over the years, as scientists learn more? Science is fluid, and science and Christianity can go hand in hand- they are not mutually exclusive. Atheists do not have the corner market on science.”

    You hit the nail on the head. Science is fluid and Religion is not. They do not go hand in hand. The purpose of science is to find the answer to a problem through the scientific method. The evidence found is repeatable and provable. Religion asserts that sky gods exists without offering proof or repeatable evidence. History has unveiled a long line of instances where religion has provided the GOD answer to natural phenomonon we could not explain at the time. At one point lightening was so mysterious humans assummed that the god Zeus must be throwing bolts of lightening down from the sky because we couldn’t come up with a better explaination. The christian church at one point insisted that the earth was only 6,000 years old and evolution was balony because the bible said so. The catholic church asserted that the earth was the center of the solar system for hundreds of years, even when presented with the evidence for the sun being the center. Religion and science do not go hand in hand. Wherever there is a question mark and science does not yet have the answer, religion steps in a shoves God into that crack… until science fills the gap with a provable, repeatable answer leaving religion to scramble to cover its blunder in assuming it had the “absolute truth” in that gap. Science is obsessed with finding the best answer with what knowledge we have gained so far – even if that means saying what we thought before isn’t the complete answer. Religion is obsessed with jumping to conclusions about a supernatural sky god and not providing the evidence to support the claim. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

    You assume alot in your paragraph above. I’ll tell you how I stand on this issue so you don’t have to “fill in the gaps”.

    Any extreem is a bad thing. I believe a balance of school and home education provide the most variety of learning situations for a child. If necessary, just home education can be suitable provided the parents do not insert a religious agenda into the curriculum and spend a great deal of time educating themselves on every subject they embue to their children. I have seen all the schooling that goes into being state certified to be able to teach just ONE subject matter in gradeschool and highschool. To become a teacher of just music (easy topic, right?) you have to have a 4 year liberal arts degree, a degree in music, know how to play ALL the band instruments at a 4th grade level (not just the one you major in), you have to do a year long internship at a school, you have to take numerous courses in HOW to teach effectively AND you have to pass a certification test. And that is just for a music teacher! I doubt any parent is that qualified in every single subject they teach at every grade level.

    Of course your kids say they like being homeschooled. I did too.. I didn’t have to feel the pressure of meeting new friends, answering the teacher when called on, learning a new school schedule route every year. I got to be done early and go out and play and I could do school in my PJs. I liked it because I didn’t have to work as hard or go anywhere. I didn’t have to push myself socially or speak up in a classroom. Give a kid a candy bar or a carrot to choose from – which one do you think he’s going to pick?

  • noreply@blogger.com (Crimson Wife)

    “You all have some good points, but as a non-home-schooler I can say that all the home school peers I know in my town growing up were socially award, shy, removed, and kind of strange…”

    One cannot generalize from the “pioneer” generation of homeschoolers to the ones of today. Homeschooling is much more mainstream today than it was back 20 years ago or even 10.

    The handful of homeschoolers I knew growing up were either hippies or ultrafundamentalists. Nice kids but yes, they were a bit on the strange side. There still are homeschoolers out there who fit these stereotypes, but they represent a much smaller proportion of the total number of kids being homeschooled.

    I wish I had a dollar for every time I heard a variation of “You homeschool your kids? But you’re so *NORMAL*!”

  • noreply@blogger.com (Crimson Wife)

    “I have seen all the schooling that goes into being state certified to be able to teach just ONE subject matter in grade school and high school.”

    My sister-in-law teaches math in a government-run school and she told me that her B.Ed. coursework was a complete joke. Her (private) *HIGH SCHOOL* classes were way more challenging.

    I looked into what it would take for me to earn a state teaching credential a couple of years ago. Only 3 out of the 12 required classes were subject-specific methods. The rest were politically correct nonsense like “Multicultural Foundations of a Diverse Classroom”. No wonder that top private schools typically do not hire ed school graduates but rather prefer folks with actual degrees in the subject they will teach.

  • noreply@blogger.com (Anonymous)

    @Crimson Wife

    “One cannot generalize from the “pioneer” generation of homeschoolers to the ones of today. Homeschooling is much more mainstream today than it was back 20 years ago or even 10.”

    I’m a lot younger then you think. I was in high school less then 10 years ago.

    I’m not sure what state you are in, but where I’m from you need a lot of schooling, background checks, etc. And good teaching jobs are hard to get without good credentials.

    Like with any industry you can half-ass your way to the bare minimum. But you probably wont get a good job with that.

  • noreply@blogger.com (Crimson Wife)

    Several of my acquaintances are current or former teachers at very prestigious private schools that charge $20k-$35+k per year in tuition. While I’m sure they had to pass a background check, none of them have education majors or state teaching credentials. These are the top prep schools who have their pick of prospective teachers.

  • noreply@blogger.com (Anonymous)

    Private schools often look for life experience over schooling and I think that’s great! You should send your kids there.

    The point here is that for one human to teach another, it helps to have some training in how children learn, communicate, and develop. Things that are not obvious, things that can be overlooks by parents due to being so close to their child and accustomed to there personalities. Moreover each subject requires a level of understanding that each parent may not have. Especially in later grades. Also many home schooling parents use home schooling as a easy-pass which is truly sad for the children who have no choice and no voice.

    At the beginning of each school year do you ask your children what they want. There will come a year when they say “Yeah” I want to try public school. Will you let them?

  • noreply@blogger.com (Mia)

    “What do you have to add to the fact that the dozen or so home-schooled children who I attended senior high and graduation with; had a hard time relating to their peers???”

    According to who? You? Exactly HOW did they have a hard time “relating” HOW were they supposedly “socially awkward”? It could have been that you were the one who was awkward and let your predjudice against homeschooling color your attitude toward them. It could be that they were more (or less) mature than you. It could be that they simply didn’t engage in the same activities or enjoy the same things. Were there any awkward non-homeschooled kids in your class? If your school was “normal” I’ll bet there were.

    “I do think homeschooling can be done well, but the circumstances and type of parent who can accomplish the well done home education is more rare than the good public school.”

    First of all, you have no facts to base this statement on. It’s what you think…not what actually is. What you think is irrelevant without facts to back it up.

    Secondly, how many people live in a district where there is a “good” public school? My OPINION is not many. The factual truth is not me.

  • noreply@blogger.com (Mia)

    “Also many home schooling parents use home schooling as a easy-pass which is truly sad for the children who have no choice and no voice.”

    Proof, please? I homeschool and, therefore, know many homeschooling parents. Every single child has graduated high school and has gone on to college. The vast majority start taking classes at the local junior college – for college credit – in their Junior and Senior years. Our group has two in Harvard and one graduated from Harvard. However, that is my personal experience. You may have done a study in your area that proves otherwise? Please share.

  • http://LiberatedMind.com noreply@blogger.com (Writings of a Liberated Mind)

    @Mia

    The point people above agreed to is that the only statistics available at this time are the test scores of the average homeschooler when compared to the test scores of the average public schooler. The points made beyond that are personal observations/experiences. From someone like me, a homeschooling parent can either listen to what I have to say about my experience as a homeschooler or choose to ignore a “finished product”. Niether side of the debate has supporting stars on how homeschoolers do socially compared to public school kids. My point is that there is more to life than learning booksmarts and testing well, which homeschoolers are known for.

    WLM

  • noreply@blogger.com (Anonymous)

    @Mia

    No sorry I didn’t conduct any double blind studies. Did you?

    When I was in High school I was friends with many of the homeschoolers in question. I was pro home schooling because I saw them getting through school faster. Taking college courses etc. After talking with them and other home schooled people since I have changed my out look because most of them said they felt segregated from 95% of their peers. And even in college had trouble because they already had credits and were never in sync with their age group.

    Life isn’t about the “finished product” its about the journey.